Great and sharp piece. I love your writing. and congratulations on the baby. Parenthood is amazing and magical.
Estrangement.. No matter what, I think it's hard for everyone and complicated. As a Korean-American who grew up with hardcore Confucius upbringing all around, it's a mixed bag for me. I DID "run away" when I was an early 20s for about 6 months. I was in Boston but I just told my parents I moved away and needed some time off. I think I felt safe for the first time. Once things calmed down, I felt incredibly alone and guilty. As an only child, I'll always carry that filial duty that binds me to my mom. I'm able to have some distance now because I found out I was adopted as a 40 something year old woman and she now lives in Korea. But it's hard but I'm also am learning to have a lot more empathy as I get much older. I've also realized that complex history (Japanese occupation and Korean war) that spans generations probably made it worse. So I'm working on just accepting certain things in life without feeling devastated.
ahh that is so hard and I'm so glad you figured out what is right for you!
It seems like estrangement does work very differently for white Americans - that was one of the fascinating things about the NYT comments - where estrangement is part of what makes (white) America "free." No contact is kind of an option for some that it really isn't for others.
I feel for you. It's not easy to be the child of Asian parents. There are a lot of baggages from all the generations on how you are supposed to act and behave (and a lot of passive aggressiveness). And that generation of Asians all have been traumatized from the wars and fleeing the country and having to struggle to re-establish themselves. And probably some of that manifest in how they do things and how they make decisions and passed all that down to you. I know thats kinda the case with my mom. It's nice that you can keep a distance from your adopted parents/mom. That maybe the best that you can do under the circumstance, and it maybe OK.
In the mean time, hang in there. Take time off to rest both body and mind. That will always help a bit.
Thank you for bringing up the generational trauma that runs throughout so many families all over the world who survived wars and occupations, poverty and discrimination.
Very thoughtful takes, thank you! And congratulations!!
I think this is one of those issues people either really get, or do not get *at all.* Plus, abuse is often its own sick secret, that children are required to hold.
So anyone who decides that estrangement is their best option is inevitably pressured by friends and relatives. Second guessed. Made to feel guilty. And chances are, they have already cycled through these feelings internally, and are perhaps even still grappling with them. Which is just gut-wrenchingly unfair.
So if nothing else, I am all for more discussion of this, both to comfort and validate those who feel they have to take this course, and educate those who criticize their choices without remotely understanding them.
Dear Emi, I read your memoir and I came to your book reading in Brooklyn. As a grown woman, you have every right to remain estranged from your toxic mother. Trust yourself and care for yourself - it's all good. As a new mother yourself, you now have double the responsibility to guard your mental health: you need to be there for your daughter. If being in touch with your mother would endanger your stability in any way then you owe it to your daughter to stay well away from your mother. You've got this! You've been through way too much, but you are resilient and strong, and you have landed on your feet on firm ground. Mazel tov!
Hi Emi it’s great to hear from you, congrats on being a mom. You have to do your best on raising a child while still recognizing that they have to be their own person also. It’s not easy but doable. My dad was the shitbag in our family and we didn’t speak for the last 20 years of his life which was great for me so I get it. Enjoy the time you have with your little one because you will see it’s the best thing that will ever happen in your life
Great piece on happily estranged, and congratulations on your new baby! Hold her tight now and respect her freedom and boundaries as she grows, which of course you know. Hugs to you and your family!
I don’t know. First you did a few articles about IVF and brought on a firestorm and now everyone is talking about it. Now you decided to talk about estrangement and it will probably pop up on all my social medias and my Apple News and NYTimes feed.
A bit late to the party here. Catching up on my substacks today. Honestly, I enjoyed your piece and persepctive especially after reading your book. My birth father and I have been estanged for most of my life. I've never called him dad, always be his first name. We've tried communicating via email and snail mail. That's about all I can handle. I call them courtesy updates. I haven't been able to reach back out since my mother passed away three years ago this month. Some times, I wonder why am I doing this? Or Should I reach out again? Anyway, I guess I fall in the pro camp. Less complications the better.
Many Congratulations on your new baby! Loved the pic.
Forgot to ask - you mentioned this in your article - And if you're interested in more juicy estrangement content, I am part of an awesome anthology project.
Estrangement is a complicate topic as pointed out by various readers on here and the article Emi wrote. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing all depends on the person's point of view and the baggages that's being carried both by the loved one and the person who has decided if it's best for their mental health to have that separation. I empathized with @UnhaEngles about being a Korean-American who grew up with hardcore Confucius upbringing, and I felt that goes with most Chinese-Korean-Japanese. Generations of teachings of respect and take care of your elders and loves your children put you in a bind of sort. It may work (and still work) in a close knit society, but in the US, it's complicated because the US encourage free thoughts and self-expression. Yet, the older generation of Asians continue to use the old playbook and not realized it no longer works. So, it resulted in a lot of conflicts, and maybe not as much estrangement, but a lot of "my job is to see my parents once a week, no more, no less".
I also felt that estrangement is a lot easier to carry out when you are young, as the old saying goes, because the young ones are "young and foolish". It's a lot easier to do certain things when you don't have a set of parameters to block you in and when you have no idea or concept of the consequences of what you do (but that's how you learn right? You did something, you make a mistake or not, and you learn from it).
For me, this is a lot more complicated than sending a letter or an email to my mom and tell her to stop meddling with my life. I am 58 and she's 84. While she is still in good health, however, I have noticed that her mental capacity has declined the past few years. She started to repeat a lot of what she said, about her good and bad old days, and she preached a lot on stuff that's no longer relevant in today's world or in the US. But at this point, it is what it is, unfortunately.
Having said that I did leave and stay away for about 10 years. I moved to NYC in 1991 to go to school and stayed there until 2002. It was a pretty happy time for me. I visited my parents twice a year, I learned how to delete emails from my mom when she's preaching about something, but I also called or had her called me once a week because my dad was deteriorating mentally and having spent 3 months with him in 1993, I knew how difficult it could be for my mom, especially someone who liked to be in control of the situation (probably part personality, part circumstantial), so I just let her talked and in the process, I think I became a better listener. My dad passed away in 1999 and I was totally burnt out at work by 2001 (but I didn't know that), so I decided to move back to SoCal. Probably shouldn't have done that, but I figured I needed to get out and didn't thought the whole situation through. As I said earlier, it is what it is. I tried not to interact with her too much on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, partly because she didn't get along with my wife and partly I don't really want to deal with her (but that's a different story and listened to my brother bitched about her when she summoned him to do stuff (hate to say it, better him than me. Plus, I paid my dues!).
One of things that strikes me while reading the NYTimes article is that often time, the parents don't understand why the kid would want a separation, while being a tech consultant most of my life, the knee jerk reaction for me is to figure out ways to educate them, so they would understand the why. However, in reality (and having experienced it myself), often time, that's next to impossible because they often don't see themselves as doing anything wrong, similar to what Bryon pointed out about Diane - it's all about her. I am sure most people who did it, did it as a last resort after numerous unsuccessful tries to forge a path forward. But I also think that those who did it, knew in their hearts of heart that this was the right decision, and those who are contemplating, think of it as ripping off a bandage - do it fast, and no, don't explain, because you tried that already and it didn't work.
First of all, you and your juicy baby look happy and healthy, even if you're both a bit sleep deprived. Congrats to the whole family.
Second, beautiful, empathetic, and honest work as always, Emi! We all deserve mutually fulfilling adult relationships, even with people to whom we're related. In my experience, understanding those boundaries intellectually and being able to withstand pressure from family members who don't see things the same way are also two different things, and setting one boundary often means setting another. It's a hard row to hoe, and I'm so glad to hear you're at peace with your choices, especially as you embark upon your parenting journey.
Congratulations on the baby Emi!! How exciting for you.
I read the NYT piece when it came out and I had very mixed feelings. I'm 59 years old and a mother and grandmother. I didn't feel sorry for the mom because she sounded just like my mom, so I could understand the estrangement. When I was in my mid-30's with three kids of my own, I did separate myself from my mom for about two years. It was very difficult for my kids because they loved their grandparents (my mom might not have been the greatest mom, but she was a fantastic grandmother.) Once I came to terms with and acknowledged my mom was never going to be my fantasy version of a mother and accept her as she was, we reconciled. I'm glad we did because she died of cancer a few years later. It was also much better for my kids to have their grandparents back in their lives.
All of my kids have needed their space from me, and this happened when they were in their 20's, and the two oldest eventually came back around. I understood why they needed to do this as I had to do it with my own mom. I needed space to figure out who I was without her and my kids needed the same. At present, my youngest son, who is 29 has cut me out of his life. It has been almost a year. It's painful and I wish I knew why. I am beginning to suspect it might be something to do with this TikTok craze (I'm not on TikTok, so I only learned of it from reading the NYT article.) He and I were very close, so I am missing him and our talks alot. However, I am also aware enough to know, that there is nothing I can do if that is his wish. He is a grown man. I hold out hope that one day he will come around like my other kids did once they had some space and set their own boundaries. But, I know that's not a guarantee. He is happy, has a good job, a wonderful fiance and at the end of the day, as a parent, that makes me very happy.
I read your autobiography a few months ago, so I completely understand your decision to not have any contact with your mom and I applaud you for making it and moving on with your life and your family. It didn't seem like your mom was ever going to change, or willing to do the work to look at herself to make the change. It is her loss in the end.
As you state in your post, it's all very complicated and it's never usually just one thing. I can attest that as a parent who has an estranged adult child, the pain is real. But, I also respect his decision and just hope and pray one day we can reconcile. I'm willing to do what I need to understand my part in why he's taken this decision. I think that's all we can do as parents at this point.
Kim, thank you so much for sharing. your empathy for your kids is beautiful, and I hope your son decides to reconnect one day - I appreciate your pain. That sucks. And I really hate social media!!!
Great and sharp piece. I love your writing. and congratulations on the baby. Parenthood is amazing and magical.
Estrangement.. No matter what, I think it's hard for everyone and complicated. As a Korean-American who grew up with hardcore Confucius upbringing all around, it's a mixed bag for me. I DID "run away" when I was an early 20s for about 6 months. I was in Boston but I just told my parents I moved away and needed some time off. I think I felt safe for the first time. Once things calmed down, I felt incredibly alone and guilty. As an only child, I'll always carry that filial duty that binds me to my mom. I'm able to have some distance now because I found out I was adopted as a 40 something year old woman and she now lives in Korea. But it's hard but I'm also am learning to have a lot more empathy as I get much older. I've also realized that complex history (Japanese occupation and Korean war) that spans generations probably made it worse. So I'm working on just accepting certain things in life without feeling devastated.
ahh that is so hard and I'm so glad you figured out what is right for you!
It seems like estrangement does work very differently for white Americans - that was one of the fascinating things about the NYT comments - where estrangement is part of what makes (white) America "free." No contact is kind of an option for some that it really isn't for others.
I'm glad you're figuring out what works for YOU!!
I feel for you. It's not easy to be the child of Asian parents. There are a lot of baggages from all the generations on how you are supposed to act and behave (and a lot of passive aggressiveness). And that generation of Asians all have been traumatized from the wars and fleeing the country and having to struggle to re-establish themselves. And probably some of that manifest in how they do things and how they make decisions and passed all that down to you. I know thats kinda the case with my mom. It's nice that you can keep a distance from your adopted parents/mom. That maybe the best that you can do under the circumstance, and it maybe OK.
In the mean time, hang in there. Take time off to rest both body and mind. That will always help a bit.
Thank you for bringing up the generational trauma that runs throughout so many families all over the world who survived wars and occupations, poverty and discrimination.
Very thoughtful takes, thank you! And congratulations!!
I think this is one of those issues people either really get, or do not get *at all.* Plus, abuse is often its own sick secret, that children are required to hold.
So anyone who decides that estrangement is their best option is inevitably pressured by friends and relatives. Second guessed. Made to feel guilty. And chances are, they have already cycled through these feelings internally, and are perhaps even still grappling with them. Which is just gut-wrenchingly unfair.
So if nothing else, I am all for more discussion of this, both to comfort and validate those who feel they have to take this course, and educate those who criticize their choices without remotely understanding them.
YES! Thank you so much for that perspective!
Dear Emi, I read your memoir and I came to your book reading in Brooklyn. As a grown woman, you have every right to remain estranged from your toxic mother. Trust yourself and care for yourself - it's all good. As a new mother yourself, you now have double the responsibility to guard your mental health: you need to be there for your daughter. If being in touch with your mother would endanger your stability in any way then you owe it to your daughter to stay well away from your mother. You've got this! You've been through way too much, but you are resilient and strong, and you have landed on your feet on firm ground. Mazel tov!
Thank you so much, Julia!! <3 <3
Great piece, it´s such a delight to read you! And congratulations on the baby! It does get easier (a little bit). All the best
Thanks so much, Mariana!
Hi Emi it’s great to hear from you, congrats on being a mom. You have to do your best on raising a child while still recognizing that they have to be their own person also. It’s not easy but doable. My dad was the shitbag in our family and we didn’t speak for the last 20 years of his life which was great for me so I get it. Enjoy the time you have with your little one because you will see it’s the best thing that will ever happen in your life
Aww thank you so much, Matt. I'm glad not talking to your dad was great - here's to raising kids who want to talk to us!
Great piece on happily estranged, and congratulations on your new baby! Hold her tight now and respect her freedom and boundaries as she grows, which of course you know. Hugs to you and your family!
Emi, was so cool to see your piece in Slate! Congrats on baby too. :) Hope you're hanging in. Mine's just turned four and what a trip it all is.
Thanks! It is wild so far!
I don’t know. First you did a few articles about IVF and brought on a firestorm and now everyone is talking about it. Now you decided to talk about estrangement and it will probably pop up on all my social medias and my Apple News and NYTimes feed.
I don’t know if I have the time to keep up 🤪😆
haha thank you Sherman :) I appreciate you!
I will write something more serious in the next few days, once I figure out how to program in Python 😩
A bit late to the party here. Catching up on my substacks today. Honestly, I enjoyed your piece and persepctive especially after reading your book. My birth father and I have been estanged for most of my life. I've never called him dad, always be his first name. We've tried communicating via email and snail mail. That's about all I can handle. I call them courtesy updates. I haven't been able to reach back out since my mother passed away three years ago this month. Some times, I wonder why am I doing this? Or Should I reach out again? Anyway, I guess I fall in the pro camp. Less complications the better.
Many Congratulations on your new baby! Loved the pic.
Forgot to ask - you mentioned this in your article - And if you're interested in more juicy estrangement content, I am part of an awesome anthology project.
I am interested in knowing more
Estrangement is a complicate topic as pointed out by various readers on here and the article Emi wrote. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing all depends on the person's point of view and the baggages that's being carried both by the loved one and the person who has decided if it's best for their mental health to have that separation. I empathized with @UnhaEngles about being a Korean-American who grew up with hardcore Confucius upbringing, and I felt that goes with most Chinese-Korean-Japanese. Generations of teachings of respect and take care of your elders and loves your children put you in a bind of sort. It may work (and still work) in a close knit society, but in the US, it's complicated because the US encourage free thoughts and self-expression. Yet, the older generation of Asians continue to use the old playbook and not realized it no longer works. So, it resulted in a lot of conflicts, and maybe not as much estrangement, but a lot of "my job is to see my parents once a week, no more, no less".
I also felt that estrangement is a lot easier to carry out when you are young, as the old saying goes, because the young ones are "young and foolish". It's a lot easier to do certain things when you don't have a set of parameters to block you in and when you have no idea or concept of the consequences of what you do (but that's how you learn right? You did something, you make a mistake or not, and you learn from it).
For me, this is a lot more complicated than sending a letter or an email to my mom and tell her to stop meddling with my life. I am 58 and she's 84. While she is still in good health, however, I have noticed that her mental capacity has declined the past few years. She started to repeat a lot of what she said, about her good and bad old days, and she preached a lot on stuff that's no longer relevant in today's world or in the US. But at this point, it is what it is, unfortunately.
Having said that I did leave and stay away for about 10 years. I moved to NYC in 1991 to go to school and stayed there until 2002. It was a pretty happy time for me. I visited my parents twice a year, I learned how to delete emails from my mom when she's preaching about something, but I also called or had her called me once a week because my dad was deteriorating mentally and having spent 3 months with him in 1993, I knew how difficult it could be for my mom, especially someone who liked to be in control of the situation (probably part personality, part circumstantial), so I just let her talked and in the process, I think I became a better listener. My dad passed away in 1999 and I was totally burnt out at work by 2001 (but I didn't know that), so I decided to move back to SoCal. Probably shouldn't have done that, but I figured I needed to get out and didn't thought the whole situation through. As I said earlier, it is what it is. I tried not to interact with her too much on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, partly because she didn't get along with my wife and partly I don't really want to deal with her (but that's a different story and listened to my brother bitched about her when she summoned him to do stuff (hate to say it, better him than me. Plus, I paid my dues!).
One of things that strikes me while reading the NYTimes article is that often time, the parents don't understand why the kid would want a separation, while being a tech consultant most of my life, the knee jerk reaction for me is to figure out ways to educate them, so they would understand the why. However, in reality (and having experienced it myself), often time, that's next to impossible because they often don't see themselves as doing anything wrong, similar to what Bryon pointed out about Diane - it's all about her. I am sure most people who did it, did it as a last resort after numerous unsuccessful tries to forge a path forward. But I also think that those who did it, knew in their hearts of heart that this was the right decision, and those who are contemplating, think of it as ripping off a bandage - do it fast, and no, don't explain, because you tried that already and it didn't work.
First of all, you and your juicy baby look happy and healthy, even if you're both a bit sleep deprived. Congrats to the whole family.
Second, beautiful, empathetic, and honest work as always, Emi! We all deserve mutually fulfilling adult relationships, even with people to whom we're related. In my experience, understanding those boundaries intellectually and being able to withstand pressure from family members who don't see things the same way are also two different things, and setting one boundary often means setting another. It's a hard row to hoe, and I'm so glad to hear you're at peace with your choices, especially as you embark upon your parenting journey.
Congratulations on the baby Emi!! How exciting for you.
I read the NYT piece when it came out and I had very mixed feelings. I'm 59 years old and a mother and grandmother. I didn't feel sorry for the mom because she sounded just like my mom, so I could understand the estrangement. When I was in my mid-30's with three kids of my own, I did separate myself from my mom for about two years. It was very difficult for my kids because they loved their grandparents (my mom might not have been the greatest mom, but she was a fantastic grandmother.) Once I came to terms with and acknowledged my mom was never going to be my fantasy version of a mother and accept her as she was, we reconciled. I'm glad we did because she died of cancer a few years later. It was also much better for my kids to have their grandparents back in their lives.
All of my kids have needed their space from me, and this happened when they were in their 20's, and the two oldest eventually came back around. I understood why they needed to do this as I had to do it with my own mom. I needed space to figure out who I was without her and my kids needed the same. At present, my youngest son, who is 29 has cut me out of his life. It has been almost a year. It's painful and I wish I knew why. I am beginning to suspect it might be something to do with this TikTok craze (I'm not on TikTok, so I only learned of it from reading the NYT article.) He and I were very close, so I am missing him and our talks alot. However, I am also aware enough to know, that there is nothing I can do if that is his wish. He is a grown man. I hold out hope that one day he will come around like my other kids did once they had some space and set their own boundaries. But, I know that's not a guarantee. He is happy, has a good job, a wonderful fiance and at the end of the day, as a parent, that makes me very happy.
I read your autobiography a few months ago, so I completely understand your decision to not have any contact with your mom and I applaud you for making it and moving on with your life and your family. It didn't seem like your mom was ever going to change, or willing to do the work to look at herself to make the change. It is her loss in the end.
As you state in your post, it's all very complicated and it's never usually just one thing. I can attest that as a parent who has an estranged adult child, the pain is real. But, I also respect his decision and just hope and pray one day we can reconcile. I'm willing to do what I need to understand my part in why he's taken this decision. I think that's all we can do as parents at this point.
Kim, thank you so much for sharing. your empathy for your kids is beautiful, and I hope your son decides to reconnect one day - I appreciate your pain. That sucks. And I really hate social media!!!